On Monday evening the Alpharetta City Council held a public hearing to determine if MetLife can rezone 47 acres they already own from office use to mixed use. The council voted to table it for 30 days to have more discussion. As you can imagine, there were residents who spoke out both for and against the development.
There have been several news articles recently listing what the MU zoning would allow on the property owned by MetLife. Surprisingly, not one news article lists what is currently allowed on the property under the current zoning. Let’s take a look at this information:
1. Currently zoned for 17,700 sq. ft. of restaurant space. They would like to increase this to 40,000 sq. ft.
2. Currently zoned for 119,700 sq. ft. of retail space. They would like to decrease this to 70,035 sq. ft.
3. Currently zoned for a 200 room hotel, they want to increase this to 211 rooms.
4. Currently zoned for 1,015,520 sq. ft,. of office space. The want to cut this more than 50% to 447,200 sq. ft.
5. Currently zoned for no residential, they want to add 546 condos.
In short, MetLife is looking to swap out some retail and office space for some residential space which would result in the total sq. ft. of development increasing by 5%. Here are some other concerns:
Traffic
For some, the first thing that pops into some peoples minds is that all those condos will add a lot of traffic to our roads. At least, I assume it’s the condos they are concerned about because otherwise MetLife is proposing significantly less office space. The funny thing is, the traffic projections for the proposed zoning vs the currently allowed zoning actually go down. Let me say it again.If MetLife develops the property as they are currently allowed, it would result in more traffic than if they were to build what they are proposing.
The reduction in traffic is really for two reasons, one obvious and one less obvious to many. First, reducing office space by 50% takes half of the to-and-from work trips that would occur off the road, in peak driving times. Far more people would be working in those offices than would be living in those condos. Secondly, MU developments result in reduced traffic over the current and predominant city planning mindset of office space here, homes there, shopping somewhere else. It’s the latter that is less sustainable, costlier and ultimately results in more cars on the road.
Excess Inventory
This issue seems to be the biggest concern among the residents that spoke out. Certainly, if MetLife were to build over 1 million sq. ft. of development today they would be in trouble. They don’t plan on starting development any time soon and said as much at the hearing. One could argue that we may still have excess vacant commercial property in 3 or more years. I don’t disagree with that, we might. But we don’t have many MU developments for businesses and residents to choose from. I think Alpharetta needs a development like this and when they do start building it – it will be an option for those businesses that don’t want to be on a strip mall next to an Auto Parts store and a Dry Cleaner. Both types of developments will survive.
Prospect Park
Yes, an epic disaster but not because of the type of development. Prospect Park failed because of the economy, the developer and a patchwork of investors all with their own agendas. MetLife isn’t looking for investors and this isn’t a speculative project. They have had office buildings on this property for the past 13 years and are operating successfully. MetLife is self-funding. This is an opportunity for Alpharetta to fix the black eye that Prospect Park gave them and have an exciting, vibrant development that can become a gateway for Alpharetta.
The Bottom Line
There are always some residents that move to a city and years later bristle at growth. The fact is, things won’t remain the same and it’s not in Alpharetta’s interest to create an environment that squelches growth. We need a growing tax base and the ability to attract a young and dynamic citizenry that will grow with the city. It would make far more sense to stop developing subdivisions right now than this development. We want business to be attracted to the city and the city needs a vibrant work-force. The project will create nearly 2000 jobs, some of those workers can live right where they are employed. The desire to have things remain like it was 20 years ago is to stagnate. We shouldn’t stick our head in a hole and say “let’s wait until things get better”. We should always be talking about what things will make Alpharetta a better city.
MU developments aren’t for everyone, but it is these types of developments that cities across the country are investing in. There is a market for them, if there weren’t then development wouldn’t have come back already to Crabapple. Weiland has sold 11 homes in Braeburn and one townhome they haven’t even broken ground on yet. These homes aren’t selling at depressed prices, they are getting top dollar. It’s because of the that type of community.
I can’t think of a better place for a Mixed-Use development than on a major highway, near other commercial, office and retail development.
where is this development, bob?
Greg, the development of the mixed-use portion won’t begin for some time, if approved, but it will be on Haynes Bridge and Ga 400. Here is a link to the developers site location. You can look around at the propsal as well. http://www.peridotalpharetta.com/vision/location
I haven’t been to the meetings. Maybe you can help me with this question. I understand the issue with the stream had to be decided upon quickly, and that’s fine. But if they are not building for 3-4 years, what is the urgency to have this decided upon now? What am I missing?
Lee, my understanding is that when the hotel market and the local economy as a whole reaches a point where it makes sense to begin construction MetLife needs to be in a position to move quickly. They have spent the time and money currently to meet the requirements and changes the City Council has requested. Starting over again in 2 or 3 years would mean more money and potentially different requirements. That’s roughly what they conveyed at the meeting.
[...] Proposed Mixed-Use Development in Alpharetta Will Get Approved: And It Should – Alpharetta Real Estate blugz_update_post(“http://www.tulpa.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php”,240); [...]
So I’m also thinking about getting my property rezoned to mixed use, so that when the economy recovers I too can move quickly.
Congrats on the article. Thought Joan did a great job talking about all four blogs.
Ha! Thanks Lee, I agree and congrats to you too.
Bob – It was nice meeting you at the meeting.
I think you are a nice guy and sincere in your support of this project but I would like to point out something I find offensive as a father and resident of Alpharetta.
You choose to live and raise your family in Milton, a city that won’t even allow sewers, yet have the gall to recommend a high density mixed use development in our back yard where our children go to school.
Some people ridicule Milton residents for objecting to sewer expansion. I don’t because I understand their reasoning. Your neighbors realize that if the infrastrucutre were in place they would face these mega projects in their backyard and so they have decided to protect their homes and families by preventing even basic sewer service. I may not agree with them but I respect their decision.
As a blogger I find it ironic that you support a project your family is safely insulated from… as a father and Alpharetta resident, not so much.
Thanks Jim, I feel the same way about you. And I’m glad that you voice your differing opinion here so others can read it. You’re right, I do live in Milton. If the development in Alpharetta gets built I’ll be taking my kids there to see events, shop and try some new restaurants. It will not only draw people locally but from other cities to come there and spend money which will equal more tax revenue for your city of Alpharetta. I think that’s a good thing, above and beyond the additional choices for everyone. I don’t think this is a negative impact on anyone living a subdivision in Alpharetta any more than in Milton. It will be located on the corner of Haynes Bridge and GA400 – a perfect location for a development of this type.
I’ve made reference before in a blog post that I would support a mixed-use developemnt at Birmingham Crossroads, much like what exists at Crabapple Corners. Of course those two locations shouldn’t have a 200 room hotel but they aren’t located next to a major hwy either. What do you object to, the whole thing or just the additional residential they are proposing? They are already zoned for everything else, which will result in higher traffic than what is proposed.
I like having choice and it’s nice that it’s out here rather than midtown Atlanta. I don’t think that negatively impacts your children or mine.
Bob, please quit equating objection to this property as objection to all mixed use. No one is complaining about Crabapple. WE LIKE CRABAPPLE! We would like something similar at Birmingham Crossroads, but the point is it *fits* Alpharetta.
And yes, as a matter of fact, I do object to the residential piece because I’ve done my homework on the flailing condo market. As we’ve already got two projects zoned for that already, is it too much to ask to see just one successful project of its kind before adding another? We see what happened when we’ve jumped the gun on other properties (Prospect, Canton). Well, maybe you can’t see because you live in Milton, but *I* have to drive by these properties every day. So yes, it is a sore spot with me and my neighbors.
If they aren’t planning to build for at least 3 years, then why can’t they come back and ask for it then? By then, maybe we will have a better sense of how the other mega-mixed-use and condos are faring around the country and we’ll know if it makes sense or not. But it seems we can’t let facts or reason get in the way.
One more thing…. it came out at the end of that meeting that it wasn’t even MetLife that was pursuing the development piece of this right now. All they wanted was the variance for the stream piping. MetLife even said it was Community Development that encouraged them to bundle it with the development piece.
Given that piece of information, it does not seem like MetLife really lost anything. They got what they needed for now. I know they mentioned sunk costs, but they would have those anyway whether they initiated this now or later.
Just not seeing the urgency.
Hi All,
I have been (and still remain) as skeptical as anyone of mixed-use as the prevailing future trend in Alpharetta real estate. In an earlier thread, I detailed all the reasons that I was suspicious of it (See : http://www.liveinalpharetta.com/blog/what-does-north-atlanta-look-like-20-years-from-now).
So, clearly, I’m not the type to easily drink the Kool Aid.
That said, if Metlife (a major employer in the area) owns the land, has done their homework and sees an opportunity to put capital to work to develop a business community there, I think the area will be better off for it. I’ve been to the Reston, VA community that they’re modeling it after, and I can tell you for a fact that its one of the nicest places to visit in the entire DC area and businesses (as well as tax revenues to the city) are thriving there because of it.
Again, I’m NOT sold on the notion that ALL new developments in Alpharetta should be mixed use, but I do think that existing real estate values will see a big long-term benefit if there were a few more places like this sprinkled in around the area.
How do I know? Because I’ve seen it happen during my lifetime in Morristown, New Jersey. Much like Alpharetta, it used to be mostly rural when I was a kid, until people who wanted to live less than an hour away from NYC started building houses there. Prices in the 1980s in Morristown were cheap (less than $150k for a 3000 square foot 4 BR/3BA). Then businesses moved in, in particular several downtown walkable areas with culture, restaurants, performance venues, etc., and as a result, housing prices in the area skyrocketed.
Now, that same house would cost you about $800k (even after the downturn in real estate), and the area is considered one of the most desirable to live in the country, even if it is located in NJ
~Barry
Barry,
Do you remember the names of the places you refer to in Reston and in Morristown? I would like to check them out.
Thx.
Hi K,
Here’s a link to the Reston Town Center :
http://www.restontowncenter.com/index.html
And its Wikipedia write-up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston_Town_Center
Here’s Morristown:
http://www.morristown-nj.org/
And its Wikipedia write up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morristown,_New_Jersey
Hope that helps,
Barry
Barry,
Thanks for the links. Reston looks like a little different concept. From their site, it looks like no residential? I like all the brick on the walkways though.
Here are the representative properties from Lincoln Property Company (doing MetLife’s residential piece).
One is at Perimeter:
http://scg-atl.com/theplaceperimeter.htm
And the other is at Brookhaven:
http://thegoodwynn.com/
Wish I could share my personal pics. The adjacent Goodwynn building (not shown) is probably styled more similarly to the Peridot proposal — more contemporary/modern architecture.
You can see from the site plan the size of the residential buildings (the two larger ones) by comparing it to the footprint of the existing MetLife buildings. But the residential buildings won’t be that tall, one is 4 and one is 5-story, I think.
Bob- Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have many objections to the MetLife project but I’ll just address one statement you make which I find most troubling.
You say in your post: “But we don’t have many MU developments for businesses and residents to choose from.” I assume you only mean that we don’t have any built yet because Alpharetta has approved two enormous MU projects in the past few years. They just weren’t built because neither Prospect Park nor Windward Mill is economically viable. You may want to take your family to a mixed use development but if there were enough people like you Prospect Park or Windward Mill would already be built. Allowing another such zoning now makes absolutely no sense.
My point is that Alpharetta City Council isn’t replacing an eyesore with a new project, they are adding another enormous project on top of an eyesore. Prospect Park and Windward Mill are zoned for 1000 condominiums regardless of what happens on the MetLife project and I consider the addition of the additional 500 condos absurd.
jimgilvin,
From the mouth of a former councilman, “We’ll thank them in 10 years.” At least that is what they told us with Canton Street despite a roomful of opposition. Only 5 more years of counting to go.
If I might just say something from the moms’ perspective (we’re the ones who carpool, run errands, and drive all over Alpharetta all week long). Alpharetta is full of undeveloped and half-developed building sites. They are ugly and remind us every day of the failures of our city government. Our city leaders drank that stupid “building boom” Kool-Aid and dragged us right into this mess. And now, as further insult, we are supposed to ignore all the mud, building equipment, port-a-potties, and rebar laying about our town and allow MORE of the same. We don’t care if Tiffany’s and Prada all show up across from The Rising Roll–we want our town cleaned up. Just so you know, the moms are pissed about all of it.
[I'm not even going to get into the introduction of even more rental units into an otherwise lopsided school zoning plan in this area.]
I think that this is such an interesting debate because in many ways, its an encapsulation of what’s going on in the country at large.
Simply put, do you expand in the face of a recession, or wait until things get better to put money to work.
Most smart businesses look to times like these as opportunities to put capital to work developing projects for a fraction of the costs they would otherwise face in better times.
Not-so-smart companies plan projects in the midst of a boom (ie. pre-2008) and watch their projects default due to cost overruns and unsustainable economic projections.
I would say that the failures you’ve seen thus far have been based primarily upon flawed projections of macroeconomic growth made during the boom. Take a look at the failures themselves and ask the questions “What year were they planned? When were they built?” See the pattern?
In the case of Metlife, however, we have a smart company with a proven track record that has modeled their projections based on current economic reality and (despite this) sees a good opportunity to develop the land that they own. Given this, I don’t see the logic in denying them.
These are the types of projects that can pull an economy out of a slump. Denying community and business development(which is the alternative), is the surest path towards stagnation and decline.
Finally, realize that even the “undeveloped and half-developed” sites that you mention above will eventually become an economic opportunity for an astute investor with capital seeking to tap into Alpharetta’s upper-middle class market demographic. The fact that a plot may only be a “half-finished foreclosure” only makes it more attractive to an entreprenneur because it translates to a lower cost basis and a greater chance for success.
Given this, its not altogether unrealistic to see the councilman’s “We’ll thank them in 10 years” quote eventually come true. Eventually these plots will be developed and will contribute jobs and tax dollars to the community, even if it means that they will need to sit for awhile while commercial RE prices adjust in the meantime.
The only thing to stand in the way of all this would be a local government seeking to restrict business growth for fear of failure.
BTW – for those who have been tuned into this debate, this recent article is worth reading :
http://www.newgeography.com/content/002070-the-still-elusive-return-city